lady_bug_kay: (dick-3costumes)
[personal profile] lady_bug_kay



Ah, DC. When the going gets tough, the higher-ups get rebooting.

I'm torn.

While I have missed Dick as Nightwing, I don't really like the new red suit - especially as it's missing the arm/finger stripes. The red eyes also have me concerned. And I'm quite sad that they're splitting up Dick and Damian, because I think they're a great team and their dynamic is kind of awesome. The current Batman & Robin series is a lot of fun. Besides, Damian as Bruce's Robin? I don't think so. Dick is the only one who can handle that kid and actually have an emotional connection with him.

And is it just me or do TPTB at DC seem to enjoy giving away bits of Dick's legacy/continuity? In the very beginning, it was his Robin identity. Possibly I still resent that, to a certain degree, but mostly I've accepted it. Then it was his future Red Robin identity from Kingdom Come given to Tim. Fair enough. The cowl is not my favourite look. Now, however, it's Jason running off with Roy and Starfire - two characters whose histories are inextricably intertwined with Dick's. Maybe it's just my Dick favouritism rearing its pixie-booted head, but I'm leery of some aspects of this reboot. Though at least Roy will get his arm back, from the looks of things; and potentially Lian, too.

Thoughts, anyone?

 

(I must say how pleased I am, though, that no one but Dick ever gets to be Nightwing. That pleases me. It's an identity he created on his own - with some assistance from Kryptonian legend - and it has remained firmly and irrevocably his own. No passing of the torch for Nightwing. It's Dick or bust.)


Date: 2011-06-07 10:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jetfuelgenius.livejournal.com
I'm completely torn too. I love my Nightwing like no one's business... but I'm really gonna miss that blue suit.

But I think I'm likewise mostly relieved that no one else is going to be carrying on the Nightwing legacy... because DC likes doing stuff like that and I was sure they were going to do it again.

But the Dick/Damian dynamic was just way too fun and I'm really going to miss that too. I think you're right, I think Damian is going to have some issues with Bruce as his Batman... or at least I hope he does. :/

Date: 2011-06-09 12:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladybugkay.livejournal.com
Thank god there's no one else taking up the Nightwing spandex, right? But the blue. Oh, the blue; how I will miss you.

And Damian, I think, will be pretty darned PISSED OFF at Bruce for breaking up him and 'Grayson.' He's finally got his Batman trained up to where he (mostly) likes him, and secretly you know he loves those Dick-hugs.

Date: 2011-06-09 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
I think Damian's likely to just pack up his stuff and move to Bludhaven, and inform Dick and Bruce of it after the fact, lol.


That's assuming they'll keep the history of Dick having been Batman and his partner, not just booted Dick out, brought in Jason, killed him off, and then...brought in Damian? How are they going to fit the other Robins in there?

Date: 2011-06-11 03:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladybugkay.livejournal.com
Oh, I can just see Damian showing up in Bludhaven, all "I'm here. I'm staying. Get used to it. Where do I sleep?"

Date: 2011-06-11 03:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
And Dick shows him to the room he's got, already fixed up for him, and asks, "What took you so long?" :D

Date: 2011-06-11 03:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
Which, for Damian, is practically a squee.

Date: 2011-06-08 12:51 am (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (batman--robin (a bat & his little bird))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
I lived through the last major reboot (COIE) and hated what they did to 'my' universe, but they don't care that they haven't gotten my money for years now. I'm very happy in Fanficland! ;)

However, very relieved that Dick is still around, though puzzled. If Clark is going to be much younger and Barbara is Batgirl again, shouldn't Dick be de-aged, too? Bruce must wind up older than Clark if he has a son 10 years old and Dick old enough to be Nightwing. Weird!

Though the end of the Clois marriage could help out us slashers! ;)

Hey! I may get Steve/Diana again! *boggles*

I always said that if DC killed off Dick I would be done with them, so I'm glad that's not the case.

I am going to sit back and watch all the wailing and gnashing of teeth as some people seem to think this has never happened before, losing beloved characters to a major reboot. Ha! That's comics! ;)

Date: 2011-06-09 12:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladybugkay.livejournal.com
We can think of it this way: Dick staying Nightwing-age is really just to allow for age-appropriate sexual relations between him and Bruce.

Am I right or am I right? ;)

Date: 2011-06-09 12:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jetfuelgenius.livejournal.com
ahaha, this is best explanation ever!

Date: 2011-06-09 12:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladybugkay.livejournal.com
Right? Even the writers want to make it easier for Bruce/Dick to happen (and be canon).

Date: 2011-06-09 01:00 am (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (batman--robin (kiss passionate))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
*laughs*

You could be right! Though if Clark is even younger than Dick, that will mess up World's Finest slash!

Heh, if we could get more than six people together who are Bruce/Dick shippers, we should do a Challenge specifically for them. I toyed with that idea and went with Steve/Diana instead (and they might be bringing that pairing back, though I won't hold my breath). That doesn't mean I wouldn't host a Bruce/Dick Challenge in the future. Not sure how many people would participate, though.

Sorry, in a pondering mood since I've signed up for my first Big Bang. :)

I always thought it was a shame that we couldn't get more Bruce/Dick luv in this fandom. We are the standard bearers, that's for sure!

Date: 2011-06-09 11:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
NEED MOAR DICKFIC!


~holds up begging bowl

Date: 2011-06-09 11:50 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (batman--robin (a bat & his little bird))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
*grins*

Who knows? Someday I may do that niche pairing for a Challenge. :)

Date: 2011-06-11 03:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladybugkay.livejournal.com
Smallville Big Bang? I was very tempted by that one. I may still write something long-ish in honour of its decade-long run. I can't wait to read your Big Bang.

Sadly, there are very few Bruce/Dick writers still around. I think I missed the big heyday for the pairing by a few years. Still, even though it's been a while since I've written them, too, I'll always come back to them.

Date: 2011-06-11 06:05 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (bruce--dick (star-kissed 1))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
The SVBB tempted me to actually sign up for my first Big Bang! ;)

I may sign up for the Clark/Bruce BB if it's held. I do have a plot already for it. It'll depend on the word count. The lower the better! ;)

Bruce/Dick is a specialized niche. Like high-end wines or other luxuries, they just can't be mass-produced! :)

Date: 2011-06-08 01:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coldfiredragon.livejournal.com
I'm cautiously optimistic! I don't mind the red. I will miss the blue, because I thought his old costume was just about perfect.

I do like the Dick/Damian dynamic, and I'll miss it, but Dick was never my Batman so I'm happy to see him go back to an identity he made for himself.

As for DC taking things that were Dick and giving them to another I'm thinking about it this way. Dick's getting back Haley's which makes me beyond happy. They are finally undoing Devin Grayson's decision to burn it to the ground.

Date: 2011-06-08 01:47 am (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (robin (spangled panties))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
Yes! I love the idea of Haly's Circus back again! :)

Date: 2011-06-09 12:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladybugkay.livejournal.com
I so loved the old blue costume. It was absolutely perfect. I'm thrilled that Dick will be Nightwing again, but I guess part of me was hoping maybe he'd take Damian with him as his own sidekick.

And, yes, much love for the return of Dick's circus life.

Date: 2011-06-08 04:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
I hate Dick's new suit.

I'm all for him being Nightwing again, but I wanted it to be because he'd done what he needed to help Bruce out as Batman and ~chose to be Nightwing again-not got demoted or anything, like he wasn't good enough at it. ROBIN was Dick's legacy and creation, too, and it never bothered them to take that from him and pass it along, so I guess we should be grateful they allowed him to keep Nightwing.

I don't like Dick and Damian being busted up. They'd brought Damian's character so far, and they were a great team; I can't see him working with Bruce that well. Let's face it, unless they bring back Alfred, the kid won't have any kind of nurturing, and may very well end up psychotic.

I think it's stupid, shortsighted, and downright mean to make Barbara Batgirl again. Oracle was pretty damn special, in terms of what she was and could do. Batgirl, no offense, is just another fairly good fighter in a funny suit.

They're hooking Jason up with Roy and Starfire so they can have him be another Dick leading the Outsiders type scenario; only in this one they'll let him do harsh things without making him be the bad guy/jerk they always turn Dick into. Jason's funny, see, and a rebel, so it's ~ok.

I haven't heard yet what they're doing about Tim, but I hope they don't get rid of him.

I've been saying and will keep saying unless DC proves otherwise to me that whatever else they do, they'll make Dick dumber and more of an asshole.

Date: 2011-06-09 12:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladybugkay.livejournal.com
Your thoughts on Jason and why it's okay that he does what Dick was criticized for doing? Yes. Exactly.

The same goes for Damian, too. Unless rebooted Bruce becomes like toon!Bruce, that kid desperately needs Dick for some emotional stability and nurturing. Plenty of Bludhaven sleepovers, please!

And Barbara. Oh, Barbara. I love Oracle. I also find her more interesting than Batgirl. Moreover, I think it's rather problematic for them to reboot her conveniently out of her wheelchair.

As for the dumbing down and asshole-ification of Dick: yeah. Sadly. I honestly think it has a lot to do with how ambiguously gender-coded he is and TPTB's fear of that, but I've said more than enough about that before.

Date: 2011-06-09 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
When Barbara was newly created as Batgirl, I can see why she was important and meant something to the fans, especially girls. There simply weren't that many female characters to follow. But now there are, and she's far more effective and important as Oracle than she ever was as Batgirl; in addition to being the only disabled character that I can think of who didn't get some kind of compensation for it, like Daredevil.

There HAS to be a better way for them to create stories than to write crappy plots and decide whoops, let's just wipe out a couple of decades' history and start over from where we liked it, LOL you fans! ~pats head

Date: 2011-06-09 11:48 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (new frontier (cover))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
There HAS to be a better way for them to create stories than to write crappy plots and decide whoops, let's just wipe out a couple of decades' history and start over from where we liked it, LOL you fans! ~pats head

Actually, they did exactly that in the '80s with COIE. There just wasn't an Internet around for them to hear the wailing and gnashing. ;)

Date: 2011-06-09 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
I know they've done it before. Once was bad enough, but twice? You KNOW they had to have gotten a pile of fan letters about it, plus people do talk to various artists and writers at cons-it's not like they don't get a good idea of how fans feel about this stuff, or they'd have killed off Dick a long time ago.

Thank goodness I don't actually spend money on this hobby!

Date: 2011-06-09 11:57 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (superman--batman (pron channel))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
Me, too! I bought one book per month, Superman/Batman, and that's probably wiped out now. Gonna save $2.99 a month! ;)

This is what fandom's for! ;)

Date: 2011-06-09 11:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
Exactly! We can circle our wagons, plug our ears and sing lalalalala to whatever new canon they put out there.

Date: 2011-06-10 12:48 am (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (batman--robin (a bat & his little bird 2)
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
LOL! True! I've never understood people who need canon to survive. If that was the case, fandom would be a pretty quiet place, as most canon only lasts a finite time, and we in comics are incredibly lucky to have 70+ years of it!

Date: 2011-06-10 12:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
What's most important to me is characterization-I do like to keep the established personalities intact. That's what makes each one interesting, and worth reading about, or shipping, to me.

I can waive that, now and then, if the story's good enough. But I do prefer it.

Date: 2011-06-10 02:11 am (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (batman--robin (silver age classic))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
Exactly! You need the characters to be themselves, but you can easily ignore comics canon because they frankly ignore it all the time themselves! ;)

Date: 2011-06-08 05:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] silvertales.livejournal.com
While I am happy that DC hasn't decided to try killing off Dick again, and wasn't that a disastrous idea, and I'm thrilled that Nightwing is HIS and his alone, I will also miss the blue suit (and yeah, the red eyes having me going "HUH?")

And, it's not just you, I've never been happy with DC's parsing out of Dick's history/identity to other characters, it's always felt like they were stripping him down to make him useless one day.

Date: 2011-06-09 12:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladybugkay.livejournal.com
Yes! It's like they're attempting to render him obsolete by virtue of handing out to everyone else everything that makes Dick who he is. Or maybe it's that they've realized what I already know - which is that Dick Grayson is DC's single greatest creation - and they can't have that, because BATMAN and SUPERMAN and GREEN LANTERN and OMGquicklet'sminimizetheimportanceandbrillianceofDickGrayson.

But let's face it. The kid's been around since only ONE YEAR after Batman's first canon appearance; he isn't some afterthought-sidekick with no canon relevance or history.

Date: 2011-06-08 09:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladyk-d-azrael.livejournal.com
Ugh, I agree with all the above. The red Nightwing suit is made of suck. HOW DARE YOU TAKE MY FINGER STRIPES, DC.

I really hate the splitting up of Dick and Dami. It just makes me want to throw a toddler tantrum and shout NO NO NO NONONONONO!

My slightly more coherent response is to say that Bruce and Damian aren't, to my mind, capable of a dynamic that's as compelling or finely nuanced. I suspect Bruce is just going to be a douche to Damian and drive him to ever escalating feats of brattiness. Until DC decides no-one likes him so they might as well kill him off for some cheap pathos.

Yes, I am deeply cynical today.

You know what galls me most of all about this reboot? It's the way DC claim epic continuity fuckery and starting from issue 1s is going to entice new readers. I'm sorry, but people who want to read comics, read comics – people who have no interest in doing so aren't going to be lured in to long-term fandom just because something's now a low-numbered issue. And the last time DC promised us a big reshuffle was going to entice fans/simplify continuity we got Crisis on Infinite Earths.

And wasn't THAT a good idea? :/

Date: 2011-06-09 12:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladybugkay.livejournal.com
FINGERSTRIPES ARE LOVE!!!

I want Dick to go back to being Nightwing, yes, but I want him to take Damian with him. You know, as Rook - the way you've written it. :) (hint hint)

The only really good thing about reboots is that it gives you more canon to pick and choose your fanon from, I suppose. That and the joy of alternate worlds/realities and the fun of dimension-hopping fics.

Date: 2011-06-09 11:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realpestilence.livejournal.com
I don't even read the damn comics any more, and I only read the occasional one here and there,when I did-but I'm so frustrated I could burst. So I can imagine how a dedicated fan feels! D:

I love the development of Dick and Damian's relationship and partnership. I can't see Bruce being much good to him, and I can't see Damian giving a hoot about Bruce, once the initial hero worship wears off (quickly, too), unless they do a MAJOR reversal on Bruce's personality characterization.

Date: 2011-06-11 03:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladybugkay.livejournal.com
The funny thing is, I didn't really read comics canon until a few years ago, and then I read only occasionally. It wasn't until the advent of the Batman & Robin series with Dick and Damian that I bought them regularly. So I guess it's back to the occasional trade again. Easier on my wallet, anyway, and I can choose the good ones.

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